Question

Atualizado em 21 abr 2023

4 mar 2021

Inglês (EUA)

Checo
Coreano

Pergunta sobre Japonês

Qual é a diferença entre あの山に登りたいです。 e あの山で登りたいです。
?Podes indicar apenas respostas exemplo.

From my understanding of the particle で should be used to signify where an action takes place, and since we want to climb that mountain, this makes the most sense to me.

However the example I saw on Kanshudo used に as a location or destination marker, but I thought that に was only supposed to be used when we're talking about existence, and using it as a destination marker doesn't really make sense to me if we're talking about 'wanting to climb'.

Any help would be appreciated.

Respostas

mikapdx

4 mar 2021

Japonês
Inglês (EUA)

Yes, にis used as a destination/final location. で focuses more on a location where the action occurs. Do you have examples with に existence? I can explain better if I have example sentences.

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Ash_si

4 mar 2021

Japonês

When your purpose is to climb a mountain, 山に登りたい.

When your purpose is far away over a mountain, 山を登りたい.

When your purpose is to climb something like a tree, 山で木に登りたい。

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mona4856

4 mar 2021

Japonês

From my understanding of the particle で should be used to signify where an action takes place
＝＝＞　You are correct. This is correct understanding of で.

I write some example of で using 山.

私は、あの山でキャンプがしたいです。　I want to camp in that mountain.
　　　　= Camping taking place in the mountain.

私は、あの山で走りたいです。　　I want to run in that mountain.
: Running taking place in the mountain.

Comparing above with 登る, I think the difference in the meaning of the verb makes 登る unnatural to use with で.
If 登る is used with 山, it means a total action of movement from the foot of the mountain to the top of the mountain.
This might not be precise gramatical explanation, but at least, the meaning/ nuance differences are true fact.

One special situation, which might help your understanding of the usage of で with 山.

Please assume that there is a large rock (such as 3meter high), at the middle of the mountain, and you want to climb that when you go to the mountain.
Then following sentence is natural.

私は　あの山で　大きな岩に登りたいです。
I want to climb that large rock, when I go to the mountain.
; This shows 1 action within the mountain.

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sidesalad

4 mar 2021

Inglês (EUA)

@mikapdx Ahh I see. So since our final destination is to climb the mountain, we use に. Thank you, that makes more sense.

mona4856

4 mar 2021

Japonês

@sidesalad

Extra;

Similar cases with other word.

I want to ride on a train.
電車「に」に乗りたい。 Natural
電車「で」乗りたい。 Unnatural.

I want to have a lunch at the dining car. ( in a train.)
食堂車「に」昼食をとりたい。　Unnatural.
食堂車「で」昼食をとりたい。　Natural.

"Have lunch" taking place at the dining car.

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sidesalad

4 mar 2021

Inglês (EUA)

@mona4856 Thank you for the examples, that makes much more sense now. I believe I was just thinking of it more in terms of climbing after getting to the mountain, instead of the entire act of 'going to the mountain and climbing it'.

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Qual é a diferença entre あの山に登りたいです。 e あの山で登りたいです。
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Qual é a diferença entre あの山に登りたいです。 e あの山で登りたいです。 ?Podes indicar apenas respostas exemplo.

Yes, にis used as a destination/final location. で focuses more on a location where the action occurs. Do you have examples with に existence? I can explain better if I have example sentences.

When your purpose is to climb a mountain, 山に登りたい.When your purpose is far away over a mountain, 山を登りたい.When your purpose is to climb something like a tree, 山で木に登りたい。

Pergunte a falantes nativos gratuitamente

Qual é a diferença entre あの山に登りたいです。 e あの山で登りたいです。
?Podes indicar apenas respostas exemplo.

When your purpose is to climb a mountain, 山に登りたい.

When your purpose is far away over a mountain, 山を登りたい.

When your purpose is to climb something like a tree, 山で木に登りたい。